Fair and Square?

by Bandoli.no

How do you argue with people who sincerely believe in heavenly spirits, in angels, abracadabra and bodily ascension, - adults who seriously think that some 2000 year old incomprehensive anonymous and occult writings from the Middle East should guide our life’s today?

How do you discuss Christianity with people who lack the most basic understanding and knowledge of religion- and church history, and who lack the most elementary understanding of science and rational thinking? These people cannot discern the difference between such basic terms as "truth", "belief", "fact" and "opinion". They treat some strange, old Semitic myths and stories from the Middle East and their own personal interpretations of them as truth and fact. They treat established scientific facts as unsubstianted lies. One can, of course, disagree with interpretations and opinions, but disagreeing with established facts and obvious logic its just plain stupid.

How do you argue with people who choose to ignore rational thinking, common sense and scientific research? These people are blissfully ignorant of recent findings in linguistics and in historical and archaeological research, and they instead choose to believe some 2000-year-old fairytales written by anonymous writers, with their own political and religious agendas, as if they are actual, unbiased, established historical facts. This in spite of archaeological, linguistic and historical evidence that most of the biblical stories are simply not correct.

How to discuss ethics and morality with people who worship an angry, narcissitic, primitive, vindictive and inhumane god, who according to his own biographers, has hundred of thousands of innocent, human lives on his conscience?

How to discuss love and charity with individuals who worship a savior whose main teaching is that everyone not believing in his divinity should be burned alive for all eternity?

How do you discuss religion with religious people?
You usually don't!
It's futile and a waste of time. They simply do not get the arguments; or rather, they do not want to accept the arguments. They prefer blind faith to knowledge and prefer ridiculous, banal, superstitious and magical notions to living in the real world. As life on earth is not fantastic and mind boggling enough. The most surprising thing is the average Christian believer's obvious lack of knowledge of the Bible itself. Most of them have never really read much of the Bible themselves, but still think they know everything about their deity and their religion.
It's not a crime to be gullible or stupid, but do they have to make such a fuss about it?

I have no intentions or illusions that these web pages can convert Christians with facts and common sense. It's not possible. If grown up people actually believe in this occult superstition, they are inaccessible to reason and logic. It's futile to discuss such things with people who do not have a normal or upright conduct towards facts and arguments. For enlightened, thinking persons, on the other hand, who want easy access to some basic facts on Christianity and Church history, these pages can be a good starting point.

But you don't have to take my word for any of it. Check out the literature on history, religion, archaeology and especially the critical literature on church history and religion. (You will find many relevant books f.ex. at. at http://www.prometheusbooks.com/)
If Christians get to know the background of the Bible and basic knowledge of church history, then it may be possible to have a meaningful and upright discussion with them.
Until then, it is difficult to have any serious discussion with ignorant Christians.

The Christians have for the last 1700 years tried to violently force, with every means possible, their bizarre beliefs upon everyone else. When non-believers simply publish historical facts, address biblical contradictions, expose the not-so-loveable aspects of Christianity and question their favorite dogmas, the believers feel personally insulted and threatened. They respond like cranky, sobbing four year olds.

I notice that some Christian websites try to ridicule these web pages. They are very welcome to do so. It's sure evidence that these pages are read and are working as intended. To fight a losing battle against established facts, reality and reason, scientific progress, logic and better knowledge is otherwise an exercise for idiots. So keep it up, guys!

By the way, it is very hard to take seriously grown-ups who seriously believe in invisible gods and demons, virgin-birth and abracadabra, judgment day and bodily ascension. And they don't have much insulting power either.
The reality is out there. Deal with it.

Everyone Is Entitled To Their Own Opinion's,
But Not Their Own Facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Stupidity is a power to be reckoned with.
Ingemar Hedenius

On Theology:
"Is it not grotesque
when the representatives of an antiquated myth-sorcery, who believes in trinity, angels, devils, hell, virgin-birth, bodily Ascension, making of water into wine, wine to blood,
- when they want to impress us with their "science"? "

Karlheinz Deschner, German writer